From cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no Thu May 8 13:11:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cinelerra@e.kevb.net Delivered-To: cinelerra@e.kevb.net Received: from init.linpro.no (init.linpro.no [87.238.46.2]) by e.kevb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409E11043C8F for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 13:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=init.linpro.no) by init.linpro.no with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ju9c6-0000xI-7B; Thu, 08 May 2008 19:09:20 +0200 Received: from [193.69.32.11] (helo=virusvask.itsjefen.no) by init.linpro.no with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ju9ZX-0000na-Mf for ; Thu, 08 May 2008 19:06:38 +0200 Received: from [193.69.32.11] by 80.232.38.252 (e-nough); Thu, 8 May 17:52:17 2008 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by virusvask.itsjefen.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17F98AC031 for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 19:06:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at virusvask01.itsjefen.no Received: from virusvask.itsjefen.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (virusvask01.itsjefen.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wset65BGdVjV for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 19:06:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dlana.elec.gla.ac.uk (mailhost.elec.gla.ac.uk [130.209.176.2]) by virusvask.itsjefen.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99688AC036 for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 19:06:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eeapp.elec.gla.ac.uk ([130.209.176.58]) by dlana.elec.gla.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ju9ZI-0003TY-2K for cinelerra@skolelinux.no; Thu, 08 May 2008 18:06:08 +0100 Message-ID: <482332FF.507@elec.gla.ac.uk> From: Bernd Porr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Subject: Re: [CinCV] Lumiera / gstreamer References: <481F6356.3050805@pipapo.org> <4822F743.3050206@elec.gla.ac.uk> <48232AAA.7040605@ichthyostega.de> In-Reply-To: <48232AAA.7040605@ichthyostega.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on spamtrap X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-10.2 required=5.0 tests=DSPAM=-10.19694 version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-DSPAM-Signature: !DSPAM:48232fc8199831033620825! X-DSPAM-Probability: -2.0000 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9997 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Sender: cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no Errors-To: cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no X-BeenThere: cinelerra@skolelinux.no X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mailinglist for Cinelerra, the community version List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 18:06:07 +0100 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Hi! I totally agree with you! /Bernd Ichthyostega wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Bernd Porr schrieb: >> Please don't get carried away with funny effects. The only video transition which is needed >> is crossfade (if any). The only audio transition which is needed is also crossfade (if any). >> ;-) I really would love to see an editor which copes with a professional workflow and is not >> becoming overloaded with geeky features. I don't need to rotate and edge detect and >> whatever. If I want to tell a story then I don't need all that but I need a reliable program >> which does very simple things very reliably. So far all NLEs under Linux do all differnt >> kinds of funny effects very well but are not able to sync audio with video or other basic >> stuff. Obviously, Linux programmers don't make films (in terms of scripting, rehearsal, >> filming). Consequence: Linux NLEs are not usable for any serious project (which involves >> actors, story, etc). >> > > Hi Bernd, > > ...well, that's one reason why we are writing yet another NLE for Linux :-P > > As one of the Lumiera devs, I can assure you: we share the same mindset with what > you expressed. Indeed, for real film making, you need only a small set of "craftman's > tools". According to my own editing experience, it is much more important to have a > small number of rather low-leveled building blocks, sort of working tools, with the > ability to handle them very convenient and fluently. For most of the day-to-day work, > I use only > - - editing/trimming/rolling plus snap-to-labels > - - fade/pan > - - contrast+color correction / parametric EQ for sound > - - sometimes a gamma curve tool > - - a general purpose compressor for sound > - - mask > - - blur (gaussian, directional) (and would need noise too, maybe colored noise) > - - unsharp mask > - - simple dissolve transition (sometimes a simple horizontal wipe) > - - layer ordering and (normal, additive, subtractive) overlying, camera+projector > > And that's it. Much more important is that you get your tools at hand and that you can > do as much as possible with keybindings. So, for Lumiera we are planning the ability to > create a personal selection of plugins and tools for each session (and stash away the > other zillions of plugins into some subfolder within the toolbox). Workflow considerations > will play an important role for Lumiera. To give an example: while it is incredible cool > if you have a node editor and can tweak and manipulate every node in the render engine > graph, such isn't much of help in a real movie project, because there you don't need to > "be able to do the manipulation", you need to do it consistently 100 times at 100 different > places and then apply a correction to your tweak again consistently 100 times at 100 different > places. And schedules are usually tight, so you don't have the time to invent a custom script > just for doing some transition, rather you'll stick to the "boring standard dissolve" > and concentrate on your storyline. > On the other hand, it is desirable to bring in a little bit of more advanced tools and > technologies, and to be able to do so in a smooth workflow. My conclusion is: to be able > to do so, we need to be (moderately) innovative and need to evolve the way things are handled > in the GUI and editing process a little bit. We don't need a big revolution and we don't need > to (re)invent Video editing though. > > Having said this, we shouldn't forget another thing. We are an open source project, we don't > have a centralized plan and can assign tasks. What we are creating needs to be attractive and > interesting on its own. Not only to the hard core indie filmmaker, but also to advanced > amateurs, maybe also partially to people doing animations, and thus we shouldn't overdo. If > someone wants to invent a brilliant new plugin and effects framework, an use Lumiera as a > testbed, we shouldn't scare him away.... > > Cheers, > Hermann Vosseler > (aka "Ichthyo") > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIIyqqZbZrB6HelLIRAv4eAKCpfktiCKwZdZa1sbfhH5ouPoAmggCfd0Yf > ffcehPxGUwzBotQXaK2vhKM= > =CAqZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- www: http://www.berndporr.me.uk/ http://www.linux-usb-daq.co.uk/ Mobile: +44 (0)7840 340069 Work: +44 (0)141 330 5237 University of Glasgow Department of Electronics & Electrical Engineering Room 519, Rankine Building, Oakfield Avenue, Glasgow, G12 8LT _______________________________________________ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra