From cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no Thu May 8 12:35:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cinelerra@e.kevb.net Delivered-To: cinelerra@e.kevb.net Received: from init.linpro.no (init.linpro.no [87.238.46.2]) by e.kevb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CFDC1043B9E for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 12:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=init.linpro.no) by init.linpro.no with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ju92y-0006Zs-LR; Thu, 08 May 2008 18:33:00 +0200 Received: from [193.69.32.11] (helo=virusvask.itsjefen.no) by init.linpro.no with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ju91Z-0006SM-PV for ; Thu, 08 May 2008 18:31:42 +0200 Received: from [193.69.32.11] by 80.232.38.252 (e-nough); Thu, 8 May 17:17:04 2008 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by virusvask.itsjefen.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3E68AC036 for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 18:30:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at virusvask01.itsjefen.no Received: from virusvask.itsjefen.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (virusvask01.itsjefen.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMj+4CUQzewb for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 18:30:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by virusvask.itsjefen.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847B38AC037 for ; Thu, 8 May 2008 18:30:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.8.23] (p5B0C2DC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.12.45.201]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML21M-1Ju9113TZE-0000jp; Thu, 08 May 2008 18:30:44 +0200 Message-ID: <48232AAA.7040605@ichthyostega.de> From: Ichthyostega User-Agent: IceDove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20071018) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Subject: Re: [CinCV] Lumiera / gstreamer References: <481F6356.3050805@pipapo.org> <4822F743.3050206@elec.gla.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4822F743.3050206@elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 OpenPGP: id=A1DE94B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+NqnIoAWI3nGQtAyHqgRyg/RULuJhVJ7W0gAO U0hN7/LD2aY0oILoVWHBIjjiR4ifKErmLLsrQkrcTiYPbNhDJu 0bCPa20myXvDBZZEDpoJ4mrN4KgF8ps X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on spamtrap X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-10.2 required=5.0 tests=DSPAM=-10.19694 version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-DSPAM-Signature: !DSPAM:4823278f169781104938292! X-DSPAM-Probability: -2.0000 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9997 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Sender: cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no Errors-To: cinelerra-admin@skolelinux.no X-BeenThere: cinelerra@skolelinux.no X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mailinglist for Cinelerra, the community version List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 18:30:34 +0200 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bernd Porr schrieb: > Please don't get carried away with funny effects. The only video transition which is needed > is crossfade (if any). The only audio transition which is needed is also crossfade (if any). > ;-) I really would love to see an editor which copes with a professional workflow and is not > becoming overloaded with geeky features. I don't need to rotate and edge detect and > whatever. If I want to tell a story then I don't need all that but I need a reliable program > which does very simple things very reliably. So far all NLEs under Linux do all differnt > kinds of funny effects very well but are not able to sync audio with video or other basic > stuff. Obviously, Linux programmers don't make films (in terms of scripting, rehearsal, > filming). Consequence: Linux NLEs are not usable for any serious project (which involves > actors, story, etc). > Hi Bernd, ...well, that's one reason why we are writing yet another NLE for Linux :-P As one of the Lumiera devs, I can assure you: we share the same mindset with what you expressed. Indeed, for real film making, you need only a small set of "craftman's tools". According to my own editing experience, it is much more important to have a small number of rather low-leveled building blocks, sort of working tools, with the ability to handle them very convenient and fluently. For most of the day-to-day work, I use only - - editing/trimming/rolling plus snap-to-labels - - fade/pan - - contrast+color correction / parametric EQ for sound - - sometimes a gamma curve tool - - a general purpose compressor for sound - - mask - - blur (gaussian, directional) (and would need noise too, maybe colored noise) - - unsharp mask - - simple dissolve transition (sometimes a simple horizontal wipe) - - layer ordering and (normal, additive, subtractive) overlying, camera+projector And that's it. Much more important is that you get your tools at hand and that you can do as much as possible with keybindings. So, for Lumiera we are planning the ability to create a personal selection of plugins and tools for each session (and stash away the other zillions of plugins into some subfolder within the toolbox). Workflow considerations will play an important role for Lumiera. To give an example: while it is incredible cool if you have a node editor and can tweak and manipulate every node in the render engine graph, such isn't much of help in a real movie project, because there you don't need to "be able to do the manipulation", you need to do it consistently 100 times at 100 different places and then apply a correction to your tweak again consistently 100 times at 100 different places. And schedules are usually tight, so you don't have the time to invent a custom script just for doing some transition, rather you'll stick to the "boring standard dissolve" and concentrate on your storyline. On the other hand, it is desirable to bring in a little bit of more advanced tools and technologies, and to be able to do so in a smooth workflow. My conclusion is: to be able to do so, we need to be (moderately) innovative and need to evolve the way things are handled in the GUI and editing process a little bit. We don't need a big revolution and we don't need to (re)invent Video editing though. Having said this, we shouldn't forget another thing. We are an open source project, we don't have a centralized plan and can assign tasks. What we are creating needs to be attractive and interesting on its own. Not only to the hard core indie filmmaker, but also to advanced amateurs, maybe also partially to people doing animations, and thus we shouldn't overdo. If someone wants to invent a brilliant new plugin and effects framework, an use Lumiera as a testbed, we shouldn't scare him away.... Cheers, Hermann Vosseler (aka "Ichthyo") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIIyqqZbZrB6HelLIRAv4eAKCpfktiCKwZdZa1sbfhH5ouPoAmggCfd0Yf ffcehPxGUwzBotQXaK2vhKM= =CAqZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra